It's the Political Fixer Podcast with your host, Shawna Presley Vercher. Hello everyone and welcome to the Political Fixer podcast. I'm your host Shawna Presley Vercher, and I am so excited about this episode. As we're reading all of these devastating and often emotional headlines, one cry has been called out on every media and social platform. Why won't someone do something about everything that's going wrong? And I'm excited to share with you one of the many amazing organizations whose work might sometimes go unnoticed that is doing exactly that. They are doing something to try to step up and preserve and protect democracy and all of us within it. I'm here today with none other than the amazing Bacardi Jackson, the executive director of Florida's ACLU. Bacardi, thank you so much for being here. It is absolutely my pleasure. Thank you so much for the work you do to uplift all of the things that are happening and are so important in this moment. Thank you, I'm excited to get into this conversation because I feel like there's a lot of darkness here, there's lot of heavy topics. I wanna cover a couple of those with you and kind of show a little bit more depth than I feel our 24 hour news cycle sometimes allows. I feel big things happen and then we move on to the next catastrophe. I want, if it's okay with you, Let's start with. A pretty gut-wrenching topic right now, which is immigration. Can you share a little bit with me about what you feel is happening with immigration overall in this country? Has it shifted or is it just that it's getting more exposure and what you all are doing in response? What is happening right now in immigration, I do believe, is a seismic shift. I think, certainly, we have had deportations happening for many, many years under all administrations. That's not new. But what is new is the manner in which we are operating in terms of not affording people their constitutional rights. No matter people's immigration status, our Supreme Court has affirmed everybody has rights that have to be respected in this nation. And so this, it's becoming a question of who are we and what is our nation? What is the soul of this nation? And are we the principles that we've all agreed to and that we'd been operating under in our constitution? And so what we are seeing right now is blatant violations of that constitution and that community agreement, that we respect due process, that people have a process that is due to them. If they are being detained in this nation, that people should have the full services and availability of attorneys. We are seeing that being deprived. We are seen people held in conditions that are just absolutely inhumane and in some cases deadly. I'm sitting here in Florida and we have seen I think five or six deaths just in the Miami detention center alone. So we've heard of deplorable conditions of families, many families being held in one room, people being held at bathrooms, not having access to basic necessities. Of course, we've seen the atrocity that was cruelly dubbed alligator alcatraz and another means to dehumanize people that is just not fit for people to be there in the middle of the Everglades, in hurricane seasons, through rainstorms, in tents and in cages. The things that we are doing right now to people really make me question what our values are as a country. And I think we all get to shape and say what that is, but right now the administration that is in power is trying to decide who we are in a way that contradicts who we have said we've been for hundreds of years. So when you have an issue that's that large, like immigration, can you walk through for me, how does the ACLU even tackle something that big? What specifically have you been doing? But also, if you don't mind, share a bit of the process because this can feel overwhelming. I can't even imagine how you guys sit down in a room and decide, okay, this is how we're gonna start to tackle this problem. Yeah, that's a really great question because we do deal with massive problems a lot. And first I'll say we have a lot of tools that we use. People tend to think of us as lawsuits and litigation, but that's just one of the tools. We also have advocates in the field. We have organizers who are organizing communities on the ground, who are supporting protests on the grounds as legal observers. We have a communications department that is educating and engaging the and making sure people know what's happening. We also have policy advocacy at our state affiliate level. We advocate, of course, in Tallahassee and with our local congressional people. But we also have a national organization that is doing that same work at the national level and in Congress. So we have all of these tools that we work with as an organization. And so that's kind of one thing that happens. And so we think about. Not just a lawsuit, but we think about full campaigns of how do we engage and take our direction from the community that's reaching out to us for help. But I also want to acknowledge we never work alone. We are part of major coalitions. There are a number of organizations on the ground. We couldn't do this work alone, and we don't have the capacity. People are often, I was surprised when I came to the ACLU a year and a half ago, The ACLU of Florida staff is under 40. It's, you know, fewer than 40 people responding to the urgencies of a state that's on fire many times. And so if we didn't have the assistance of, I mean, thousands of hours of pro bono council of law firms and lawyers who stand with us, if we don't have thousands of volunteers, we have over 50,000 members who fuel this work. So we are not just the staff members sitting there. We have a volunteer board that's incredible that helps us. Magnify and leverage our work. So it is all of these components coming together that let us tackle these massive problems in these different modes of response. And so the first thing that we might do is sit together and try to strategize. Obviously, we always struggle with the fact that we don't have enough capacity. So part of my job is to be executive directors. There's never enough, right? This data is humongous. It's a 10-hour drive from north to south, eight hours left to right. So we need definitely greater capacity, but what we do is we really try to think about what is the, where is it that we are needed? Where there are not other organizations already holding the mantle? What can we add and offer that's different or that can help what other organizations are already doing? So we, you know, we are happy to step back when there are experts in the space and support. Or we're happy to take a leadership role when that's required. And so we operate like that across all of the issue areas that we focus on. But that is, you know, I really want to stress we don't work alone. And that's on a national level as well across all of our affiliates. You see the same kind of coalition building and collaboration. Now, you have been maybe not with the ACLU of Florida for an extensive period of time, but you have an extensive background in advocacy work, in shaping policy, as someone as a leading figure in the legal community. When you went to the ACLU and you kind of started to really understand what was going on and really get your hands dirty, so to speak. What would you say now the ACLU, while it does have the help of a number of tremendous talented partners, what do you feel like makes the ACLU unique? What makes you guys special? What do you do really well? Yeah, I think one thing is we have a pretty clear wheelhouse that we're known for, that we've been doing for 105 years across the nation. The national organization has been around 105 years. I stand on a legacy in Florida of 70 years of this work. And so one, we have name recognition and people understand when you hear the ACLU, you know you're talking about freedom of speech, you know you are talking about government accountability, you're know you talking about defending the rights of all people. Across whatever political lines. I think that's a gift for this organization. You know, there's been a case where we represented Donald Trump, right? I mean, so this is not, we're not a political organization. People tend to think of us as sort of a left-leaning organization, but we are not a political organization. We defend the Constitution, and we think it is incredibly important. And I think we do that very, very well. One of the things that I learned when I We cross all of the political spectrum because we are with people who value that, who value the bill of rights and all of those things that are promised to us as residents of this nation. And so I think that's what we do very well. And I think the other thing that is amazing about our organization, and people may not know this, I didn't really fully understand it, is that we are many things. We are many organizations. We have 54 affiliates across every and in Puerto Rico and D.C. All of us separate legal entities, and we have a national affiliated organization that works with, and all of work together. And so the beauty of that is, is we have the autonomy to address what's on the ground in our states with people who live here, who are part of the community, the staff who work with us all work in Florida, many from Florida. So we're deeply entrenched in our community, but then we have the benefit of learning from other states and other organizations that are doing exactly what we're doing. And we have the benefit of a national organization that can take a nationwide view and help us synthesize what's happening across our different states. And that's incredible. I can't tell you what leverage that gives us that we don't have to constantly reinvent a wheel. We can lean on each other. Sadly, Florida is often the leader in regressive and repressive policies that are then coming for the rest of the nation. And so we tend to be a teacher oftentimes, but there are many instances, we certainly lean on our colleagues in Texas quite a lot and in other similarly situated states. And so, we have a lot of learning from each other. But at the same time, a lot experimentation and different ways and models that we can try. Okay. So I know that you say you don't have to reinvent the wheel. You're not alone, but these are unprecedented times, even with the huge legacy spanning over a hundred years of the organization, I would say we're still seeing some uncharted territory. So have you guys had to adapt either some of your processes or your methodologies or even like how you approach things with, you know, what you choose to tackle in light of our new normal? Yeah, it's kind of a both and because, yes, these are unprecedented times, but we also have seen a lot of this before. And when you span back, not 105 years, but 250 years ago this year, and you see the document that was drafted by 56 men who were laying out in detail, very specific violations of of what they saw as the rights of people in a nation. It's exactly the same thing. So while we are in a new space, we are at it again. And so in some ways that gives me hope because we've overcome this before and we've shown that we are a nation with an incredible fortitude to be able to have the resilience to come from tyrannous places, that we can move from authoritarian regimes. Into democracy. And democracy is an experiment. I mean, this is the nation that is pushing democracy more than it's ever been pushed before. Probably the greatest lines ever written in the history of humankind were in that Declaration of Independence of all men. It wasn't been Did it equal? Gave an impetus for incredible progress that without that kind of thinking would have never come about in the world. And so I think we are in unprecedented times again, and we have a lot to lean on. One of the stories that I like to tell that gives me really a lot of hope is the story of Frederick Douglass, of a man who was born into slavery. And who had to face the Dred Scott decision that said, you're free in one moment and the very next moment, you are no longer considered a citizen of this nation. And so when I think about that moment, how heavy that must have been for a Frederick Douglass or anybody who had attained their freedom and had worked hard and had educated themselves and had families and to be faced with having your rights taken from you. And that's where we are right now, right? We are having our rights taken from us, things we've become accustomed to that are ordinary and normal. We expect due process. We expect freedom of speech. We expect the right to protest. But here we are having these things seized and pulled from us in ways that are intolerable. And what I went back and read a speech that he gave right after the Dred Scott decision. And instead of lamenting how horrible this decision was, he actually said, This is a glorious day. And the reason he thought it was a glorious today was because that decision was so despicable. He knew there would be no choice but for our nation to come to the understanding that slavery could not continue and exist. And I kind of feel that same way right now. What is happening is so deplorable and despicable and inhumane and not anything that any of us want to be That we have no choice but to move out of this into a greater democracy with an insistence that we will never ever get back here again. And so that's what excites me about this moment. It's scary in some ways, but in other ways, it's an opportunity for us to pull down the blinders and say, this is not who we want to be. I love that you go to the place of hope because that's something else I was excited to talk to you about because it's one of the top things that I feel like people are struggling with is just overwhelm and hopelessness. And I don't find that to be accidental. I find that be a tool of the authoritarian nature, right? They want us to feel like there's no sense in fighting back, there's sense in speaking out. So aside from. These glimmers of hope in our history. Do you mind sharing a couple of moments that recently gave you a spark of hope where problems not all solved, there's work to be done, but you're like, you know what? That was a step forward and we helped do that. You know, I went to, one of the first things I went through when I went to join the ACLU was a conference that was a national conference. And we had the national legal director, David Cole at the time, who gave a presentation about what had happened over the years with the Supreme Court and the ACLUs cases. And that's when I learned that we've had over 430 some cases in the first Trump administration. But what was shocking to me was the incredible percentage of them that we won. And that is what gives me hope in these moments is that we are still having victories, even with judges who were appointed specifically to support an agenda. And so to be able to have even a few victories, much less many victories in that kind of environment. Is incredibly inspiring. Here in Florida, we have had victories at several levels. My favorite, one of my favorite cases came or quotes from a case, I actually want to start a t-shirt line now of quotable wearables. But one of the favorite quotes that came out of a case was one of cases we brought in the amendment four work that we were leading, helping to lead to try to keep government out of our private medical decisions and make sure women have productive rights. And Judge Walker wrote a decision around the government trying to stop political ads from being run on certain television stations. And we brought that suit. And the best line ever was, to keep it simple for the state of Florida, it's the First Amendment, stupid. And so, you know, it is those kinds of moments of just, you know somebody saying, really, Really, this is. Beyond the pale of anything reasonable. And so I am constantly getting that kind of hope that other people may not see. I would urge people to go to our website and follow our cases because you will get some of that hope as you see the cases that we are victorious in, that we able to stop behaviors like what we're challenging in the Everglades right now in that detention center is people not having access to counsel. And we have a lawsuit pending around the state doing work that the federal government should be doing. So, you know, we are constantly finding places of hope because that's why we constantly bring these suits. We have hope that we can win them. But in addition, we're seeing hope, the No Kings Rally. If you didn't go to any of those rallies, my goodness, you are missing out on a whole sea of hope. I was so inspired being in a crowd of people who were so determined. And so clear about the goals and it is literally a sea of people that you see all around you and the signs, all the signs. That is my favorite part. The signs are my favorite part. And so if people are not feeling hope, I would say find people who are like-minded, who are just as determined as you to change this. I happen to have had one of those kinds of lives that has built a lot of resilience and has brought me to a space where I understand we're gonna move through some hard things, but it's also given me a bit of boldness. In my belief that I have not only the right as any other human on this planet to exist here with the unalienable rights that were written in the declaration and other places, but I also have the right and the responsibility to decide what kind of world and nation we will just as much as any other person on this planet, whether they were elected or not. I have that much right and responsibility. And in every single thing I do, I can decide whether or not this is who we should be as a nation. And my silence is also a choice. And I was one of those people who my best friend's dad used to have to warn me. He's like, Bacardi, you know, every hill you climb ain't gotta be the hill you die on. Which is true. You gotta pick your battles. All of them are not equally worth fighting. But if you stop finding hills worthy of dying on, we have stopped living in a world worthy of living in. And so I think we have to decide, all of us, each of us every single day, every moment of our lives, whether it's in a grocery store. And my daughter should grant me stopping and saying, you need to understand the microaggressions I'm experiencing as you're sifting through my basket to search me, and you didn't search everybody else around me in the same way. Or whether it is me taking on a case up to the Supreme Court. All of those equally are the ways that I decide every single day, every moment, how I'm going to shape the world I live in and the world that my children are inheriting from us. You and I have known each other for quite some time. Our little ones were knee high, I think, when we first met. And so I know about some of the struggles that you've gone through. And I also know a little bit about your background, your career, and how many options you truly do have in your field. You could move to a less frustrating location that's not Florida. You could choose to nothing against our corporate attorney brethren, but it could be arguably less stressful if you chose a different career path. Can I ask why? Why are you still doing this, albeit at a fairly new location at the ACLU for you, but you've been doing this work for a while. What keeps you going? Why choose this? Yeah, it's a good question because it's also more lucrative on many of the Right. Yeah. Yeah, sing it. Yeah, I know. I'm right there with you. And my children kind of remind me of that too, but I think for me, it is just what I was saying, and I truly got that honestly. I grew up in the shadows of civil rights giants. My parents were both civil rights activists. My father worked alongside Dr. King and was a strategist who pushed for and strategized and came up with initiated what became the Birmingham Children's March. Which initially most of the other folks were not for, and who also strategized what became Bloody Sunday and got us the Voting Rights Act. So the Civil Rights Act and the Votting Rights Act were out of this strategist mind of we've got to show people what is happening and how horrific this is. And my mother was the principal organizer of the 1967 Pentagon demonstration to stop the war in Vietnam, and my entire life I have been at her hip. As she's taken on every city council meeting, every school board meeting. I grew up in that environment, deeply embarrassed like my children are today, that my mom was again at a microphone saying something and pointing her finger. And so it is just who I am at my core in terms of understanding my power because I was raised to understand one person can change the course of the nation. One person. Can create statues that will change the rights of millions. One person can decide to help. My mother also is a student helped end up, the first action our Congress took against South African apartheid. One person, can initiate a snowball that turns into an avalanche. And so for me, it is not an option to sit on the sidelines while we watch our nation burn. It is just not an option. And I have the tools, I have the ability, I have experiences that have really culminated into this moment. And I can't imagine what else I could be doing, because I would be spending all of my time stressed about what I'm not doing if I weren't in this role. So while, yes, it is in some ways a sacrifice, it is also a gift to me, and it is an honor to be able to go to work and do something about it. And I get, you know, I have a job that lets me do that. And that is really a gift and I don't take it lightly. I understand the weight of this work, the weight, of this role. It's really, really important. And I can't tell you my endless admiration for the people I go and get to work alongside, people who have been in the trenches for years and years who stand through the hardest of times. And let me tell you, this stuff hits personally for people. It is not just some philosophical battle we're having about the Constitution. The people I work with, their lives are being touched by the exact things we're fighting for. And so to be able to work alongside those kinds of, of literally soldiers who can face their own personal turmoil as they're watching their own families struggle through this and still come to work and be focused like an eagle to get something done. Is really just an incredible honor. So I am very, very privileged. You've brought up so many great points. I love, I didn't know this about your mom. I think I had heard a couple of stories about your father's legacy, but I love the stories about your mother's. We used to say lovingly, like, oh, she got a file. Like someone somewhere is watching that woman with all of her activism work. She had a file, I guarantee your mom had a file. I've seen them, yes. They're all blacked out. You can't read much, but she's got a file. But it's there. So, you know, this work is important. It makes a difference. And yet you're a human being. You're a mom, you're a career woman with all of the pressures. You are a woman of color on top of that. You live in the South on top that. So in those moments where the pressure becomes great, where the weight is really starting to be felt, what What do you do for self care? How do you get centered again? Well, I have a few tools and my favorite one is I dance. That much I know. I find my dance class and I dance. That to me is sort of this important motion in group and in the community that really feeds my spirit. And we talk about this a lot in my workspace because all of us have to figure out how do we find this balance in this space. I wake up in the mornings, I try most mornings to get out into the world and run or walk or something and find that space of meditation and peace and some exercise. Because you really do have to think about self-care in a way that understands if you're not okay, you can't lift what you've got to lift. And I'm inspired constantly by my children. I mean, I really lament that my daughter has fewer rights than I had growing up. I lament that deeply, that I have to tell her she can't sign up for a period app because it could one day be used against her in a court of law. These are devastating to me that I have to tell my children, not only now do I have to worry about them as young Black, my sons as young black boys with the already one in 1000 chance of them being shot in their lifetimes by a police officer. But now I got to worry about ICE too because they, you know, the standard is if you look like an immigrant, right? And any person of color looks like an immigrant in most law enforcement spaces. And so, you It is deeply personal and heavy, but it is so important to be inspired and to find the inspiration when we look at our children and say, I am determined to make sure you have at least as many rights as I had and I'm not going to rest until I do. And it's not just my children, but truly all children. I mean, even talking to my children's friends and learning, you know, one young lady was telling me how her grandmother won't leave her house. She's been. Stuck there for months because he's scared to go to the grocery store, scared to outside. I mean, these are real lives being impacted every single day. And so, you know, carrying that, that vicarious pain and our own pain at the same time means we also have to be very, very conscientious and intentional about finding some space to breathe. Yes. I don't do that very well, but I'm, I'm working on it. And in fact, we'll start a support group. Yes, we think that. Well, you know, I know you've got a lot ahead. You've accomplished so much already. And just around the bend, we have a Florida special session that has just been called by our governor to attempt to gerrymander our congressional maps that is set to take place in April, if left unchecked. Immigration as we're airing this as we are recording this took an even darker turn with a woman in Minnesota, a citizen gunned down in her own vehicle by an ICE agent. You have voting rights under attack, the list goes on and on. So if people want to stay informed without staying overwhelmed, what would you recommend and where would you send them for that information? Well, I would say everybody should find reliable news sources, shows like yours, places where they believe they can get true, valid information. I'm on, I listen to NPR constantly. I think it is, it's so important for us in this moment also to support media outlets that are giving us real and true news. So first of all, I say find and support media that can give you information that's unfiltered or not spun. Make sure you understand the facts and you can do your own filtering and your own analysis. I think that's really, really important. And then connect. I think the sense of helplessness overwhelms us when we do start to feel helpless and none of us are helpless. There are so many ways to connect. I have volunteer opportunities in every one of those tools that I mentioned. If you are a lawyer, if you wanna just go out and legally observe. Protest, if you want to help do know your rights trainings, if you wanna join a band book club, if you wants to, we have all of that at the ACLU of Florida. So I would say go to our website, sign up, don't just take in the information, do something with it. And so I would just urge people to sign up and it doesn't have to be the ACL you, every nonprofit right now is under attack and is worried about what resources they have, whatever your issue is, whatever organizations resonate with you. Connect with an organization. We need the fuel of the people with us. We need to the support financially, but we also need people power. And so, you can join so many organizations as a volunteer to deal with these issues. And so I hope people will definitely take that next step of information to action. Absolutely. I feel that you provided not just good information today, but inspiration, fuel that we need. It's been amazing. I love you so much as a person, but I also genuinely admire you as an everyday hero. And I know that you your work and the work of your team and your allies. I feel like all of you deserve capes and medals just all around with cute boots to go with it. So thank you for taking time out of your important work and your just packed schedule to share your knowledge with our audience. I really appreciate you. And my joy partially comes from surrounding myself with amazing people. So you have given me fuel to move forward as well. Thank you, Bacardi. And likewise, I see your cape, so thank you so much. Thank you for all that you are doing to make sure everything is magnified and people have a source and a place to get real information and to process and think together. So really, really appreciate you and can't wait to connect in person. You as well. All right, if you want to learn more about the ACLU of Florida and the ACLUs work, overall we're going to provide you with their website and information. And if you have other suggestions of the thousands of nonprofits that Bacardi alluded to that are doing great work, these everyday heroes that we should be shining a spotlight on, let us know. And in the meantime, this has been Bacardi Jackson of the Florida ACLU and Shawna Presley Vercher, the Political Fixer, we will see you all soon! The Political Fixer podcast is produced by Reine Media and Tampa Bay Community Network. Executive producer and host Shawna Presley Vercher. Audio producer John Casimiro. Theme music by SoulShifters. Content is for information purposes only and is the property of Reine Media & Shawna Presley Vercher. For more Political Fixer content and resources, visit politicalfixer.com.